Talk to me about UniWB....

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Lil Judd
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Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

OK I'm having issues with my D700 in regards to my red channel. A "noted" pro photographer on DPR tells me that the camera's & NX2's histograms are tricking me - & keeps telling me to use UniWB. And that's supposed to fix everything. Now I have it all downloaded etc. I can go ahead and install it on the D700. But I'm not 100% sure I've understood it.

Is this UniWB to be used instead of Nikon's WB or what? Is it supposed to ensure I see a "truer" histogram or what?

I'm not willing to ask this on DPR as I know I will be clobbered since this would go in the Pro forum.

I've not had to go to these extremes with either the D300 nor the D200. I've learned to control them fast & easy.

Please help.

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
Wishing you Golden Light & willing subjects. My ever evolving galleries can be seen at http://lilknytt.zenfolio.com/
pam.meier
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by pam.meier »

Hi Lil,

you need to know how your camera achieves White Balance. It shifts the red and blue channel to neutralise yellowhish or blueish light tint. The sensor shows the histogram accordingly. Now that usually is not what the sensor actually recorded. So when making red darker and blue brighter, for example, you may see an underexposed red and overexposed blue channel. The actual data on the chip is not. So when you use UniWB try it on a red flower. You know how tricky that is. With UniWB you see the actual red channel and can expose for it.

When you load your RAW file into the converter of your choice, you need to tell it what WB it should apply and still could recover channels, in case they should get blown, because all the data is there.

It also helps to know what filters to use. For underexposed red channel take a 30 or 40 M, for blue take 30 or 40 cyan.

Hope this helps,
Pam
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

Thanks Pam,

it helps a lot. And yes - I do know how tricky those red roses are. :-D

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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jhaas
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by jhaas »

Lil Judd wrote:Thanks Pam,it helps a lot. And yes - I do know how tricky those red roses are. :-D Lil :-)
Hey Lil,

I downloaded uniwb yesterday from your magnificent "help me topic", tried it today and it works like charm!
All you need to do is correct wb in pp cause as you see colours are not real with uniwb,
I somehow feel i get better and more pure colours especially under artificial light using uniwb

really happy you started that topic ...)

Jussi
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

OK Jussi,

I've not done that yet so I have no idea of the result. I guess I have to look at it closer tomorrow after all the animals are fed etc.... Read about it in the manual etc.... I guess we're supposed to rename it a jpg - I thought a nef... So I have to start from scratch on that one...

Thanks Jussi....

Iliah Borg thinks I'm a lousy photographer for sure....

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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jhaas
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by jhaas »

Lil Judd wrote:OK Jussi,

I've not done that yet so I have no idea of the result. I guess I have to look at it closer tomorrow after all the animals are fed etc.... Read about it in the manual etc.... I guess we're supposed to rename it a jpg - I thought a nef... So I have to start from scratch on that one...

Thanks Jussi....

Iliah Borg thinks I'm a lousy photographer for sure....

Lil :-)
Hey Lil, you dont have to change it to jpeg,nef is fine and then just rename it to suit your camera like _JKH2032.NEF like i did, after that you should see it wb preset mode and choose that picture to adjust wb from.
Pretty simple and i love the colours i get after adjusting wb in post...


Jussi
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

Jussi,

OK - I've been on photo.net trying to get a tad of help there. On DPR I just get Iliah talking down to me. He changed his tone a tad after I was distant to him - but I know the man feels I'm an * (hope the system will allow me to call myself that.....) woman who's bought a camera I can't control.

So from what I've gotten at photo.net this is what I've come up with.....

The UniWB will allow me to see the camera's actual NEF histogram - not a jpg interpretation of my NEF file. This would allow me to expose for the actual red channel ensuring I have it correct.

However the image I will see on the LCD screen will be completely wrong looking as the colors will be off as WB etc will be off.

So now the issues are ......

WB will always be off as I have to fix it in post (or can that still be done in camera)
Sharpening etc will all have to be done in post.

Is this true?

Because in this case I'm adding steps in NX I don't know if I'm happy about at all.

Also - what if I don't like working in UniWB? Can I set the camera back to "normal"?

Also - is it not easier to just keep adjusting EV until I have it right? This seems like a lot of extra work if you ask me.....

Thanks

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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jhaas
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by jhaas »

Lil Judd wrote:Jussi,OK - I've been on photo.net trying to get a tad of help there. On DPR I just get Iliah talking down to me. He changed his tone a tad after I was distant to him - but I know the man feels I'm an * (hope the system will allow me to call myself that.....) woman who's bought a camera I can't control.So from what I've gotten at photo.net this is what I've come up with.....
The UniWB will allow me to see the camera's actual NEF histogram - not a jpg interpretation of my NEF file. This would allow me to expose for the actual red channel ensuring I have it correct. However the image I will see on the LCD screen will be completely wrong looking as the colors will be off as WB etc will be off.
So now the issues are ......
WB will always be off as I have to fix it in post (or can that still be done in camera)
Sharpening etc will all have to be done in post.
Is this true?
Because in this case I'm adding steps in NX I don't know if I'm happy about at all.
Also - what if I don't like working in UniWB? Can I set the camera back to "normal"?
Also - is it not easier to just keep adjusting EV until I have it right? This seems like a lot of extra work if you ask me.....
ThanksLil :-)
Hey Lil,

keep on trying i am sure Iliah is not trying to put you down...
This is the way i got the uniwb concept,it takes wb out of the histogram(which actually changes it guite a bit sometimes)
and shows you the real luminious values of each channel like camera sees it without trying to guess what values Wb needs..
It is showing "wrong" colours and you have to adjust Wb in post prosessing, but thats something i always normally do even without using´uniwb.
I did not notice big difference in turning sharpening down or not but normally do that in post also.
so...

-yes you need to adjust wb in post(cannot do it in camera with using uniwb)
- you can always change wb in camera to whatever you like(uniwb is only 1 preset after you have installed it), you can use auto or whatever other settings you like!/if you dont like working with uniwb)
-adjusting ev is probably "almost as good" but i like to shoot with manual mode and usually use spotmeter to determine where i want highlights to go and using uniwb i get better results and histogram i can rely on..
- this is something i prolly imagine but i feel i get more neutral and true colours using uniwb and adjusting wb in post...
quick example of skin tones included:
Image

My conclusion after few days with uniwb is i will keep using it with great pleasure even thought i never had problems with red channel with my camera...

Hope this helped you Lil,take care

Jussi
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

Thanks Jussi,

if I can add it & then see how I like it - well that may work for me. I may give it a shot. :-) Thanks

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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pam.meier
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by pam.meier »

Lil Judd wrote:Also - is it not easier to just keep adjusting EV until I have it right? This seems like a lot of extra work if you ask me.....
Lil, of course, you can use UniWB to judge a certain light situation and then switch back to AutoWB.
I use UniWB and then let the RAWconverter autoWB. I always carry a foldable grey target in my camera bag, too.
So I just take a picture of it at the beginning of a series. Or you take one image in AutoWB and then switch to UniWB.
It is a quick menu adjustment. I find it is no extra work and worth it. Bracketing also does take a lot of extra time checking which image is exposed ideally.
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

Thanks Pam,

sounds like a smart way to go. :-) I may well try that - after all ..... I have all those toys.

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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pam.meier
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by pam.meier »

Yes, let´s not forget to actually take pictures with all those workflow options ;)
But UniWB really is a great help and very easy to use.
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

Thanks Pam - - remembered I needed to thank you for your input. So far I've not installed it. Mostly because I feel I'm getting a feel for the camera & that was what was lacking at the time.

Lil :-)
Lil :-)
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pam.meier
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by pam.meier »

Hi Lil, last weekend I shot a series of portraits in my studio. I took a few test frames with UniWB and - gosh - was Red underexposed! So I needed to overexpose the series to have clean files. At ISO 100 all frames would have come out noisy ... After the initial frames I switched back to preset WB ;) I don´t like my customers look at themselves with green faces, hehe.
Lil Judd
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by Lil Judd »

LOL LOL LOL

Green faces would create a problem for sure. :-) You're right, a few test shots is normally all that it takes. ;-)

Lil :-)
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cordell
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by cordell »

hello ladies

i started following the uniWB thing last week on DPR(Lil). let me see if i understand this.

1. i load this on to my CF card and install in camera
2. i bring up the 'image' and set it as a WB pre-set
3. i take a shot and can now look at all colour channels to see the actual 'levels' and adjust from there
4. all shots taken with this 'setting' will need to be WB adjusted in post process

and by the way, thanks for asking about this. it does take some guts to ask questions on DPR. you have posted some very nice shots also.

cordell
pam.meier
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Re: Talk to me about UniWB....

Post by pam.meier »

Hi Cordell, looks like you have nailed it!
Here is an instruction from libraw.org, I hope the link works.
It´s best to use a totally linear curve, too, so if you can use camera control, this would be the best way to set your camera (here a D3):
http://www.libraw.org/node/86

For PC users, you can check your RAW file´s "true" histograms with Rawnalyze:
http://www.cryptobola.com/PhotoBola/Rawnalyze.htm
after shooting.
cordell wrote:hello ladies

i started following the uniWB thing last week on DPR(Lil). let me see if i understand this.

1. i load this on to my CF card and install in camera
2. i bring up the 'image' and set it as a WB pre-set
3. i take a shot and can now look at all colour channels to see the actual 'levels' and adjust from there
4. all shots taken with this 'setting' will need to be WB adjusted in post process

and by the way, thanks for asking about this. it does take some guts to ask questions on DPR. you have posted some very nice shots also.

cordell
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One of the best threads on this young forum until now...

Post by photoforfun »

Veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrry interesting!
...Thanks to Lil, Pamela and others for your contribution in this topic.
Kindest regards, Stany
I prefer one really good picture in a day over 10 bad ones in a second... http://www.fotografie.fr/
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